What if the career you are looking for isn't just about climbing ladders, but about coming home to yourself? Welcome to the Seen Heard Value podcast with me, Aimee Bateman. These episodes are for anyone ready to move beyond surface level career advice and dive into the deeper work of authentic success.
This is where career strategy meets self-discovery. So let's go.
Hi everyone, and welcome back to an episode. Now this week I want to do some think. Especially for one of our listeners. Well, it's not really just for that listener, because I know there's a lot of you that will be going through this, but I have a brilliant woman at the moment who is on my female further program and like many.
Exceptional women. She's returning to work after a break of looking after her children, and that is a whole minefield of emotions to get back into the workforce. You know, dealing with your own limiting beliefs and who am I now? What value have I got? It's a whole confidence thing. LinkedIn did a global study last year and found that almost two thirds of people who take career breaks are women.
And most of them are between the ages of mid thirties to mid forties, so that's a real pivotal stage of balancing children, family, maybe elderly parents. And your career. Now, the average career break. Lasts about a year, but for women who step away to raise children, it's actually closer to three to five years, and my guest today is the fabulous Jacqui Porter.
Now Jacqui is an ICF certified personal and executive coach. Now, before becoming a coach, she built her career in finance, in marketing and leadership, but then she stepped away. And this is why Jacqui's here, and this is why Jacqui does the work that she does. She stepped away from her own career for caregiving and she experienced firsthand what it's like to lose and then rebuild professional identity.
And now she uses that journey to fuel her passion for helping others to navigate that big transition in their life and career. So Jacqui has coached over 200 professionals all over the world. She spent many a time listening to me and helping me and pick things in my career too, and I'm just so glad that she is here.
Hello Jacqui. Hello, Aimee, how are you? Hi. Hi. I'm great. I'm so glad that we've now found the time to do this. What a topic to talk about, eh? Yes. I'm so glad we're doing this. It's such an important topic, and I've just loved that you and I connect so easily around this area. Yeah, yeah. We really do. Okay, so Jacqui, share your story with us and what your journey was like when you were returning to work after taking that career.
Because how long were you, were you out outta the workforce for Mm. It kind of depends on how you look at it, but basically four years and then I went to school for two years and then I was firmly re landed in my career. Okay. So share that story with us. I'd love to, and I think it's important to start actually right out of college because looking back there was a pivotal.
Decision for me at that time, I was torn between applying to grad school and also taking a predictable kind of corporate career route that was really safe, came with benefits, had worked there for 40 years, and then retire like an ideal career, right? But then out of nowhere, an opportunity literally landed in my lap.
I was working at the front desk at a law firm, and one of the clients was launching a startup investment advisory firm. And they asked me to go out for a beer and basically offered me a job helping them build the startup from the ground up. And my gut said, yes, absolutely. I wanted to do this. And obviously it was a little bit more risky, but I wasn't excited by the safe route, really.
And I'll never forget telling my mom, and it's still to this day. The biggest disagreement we've ever had. And I told her, I'm taking this opportunity. I want to work for this startup firm. And she couldn't understand why I wouldn't take the safe, comfortable route. And knowing where she was coming from, it's what she needed for her safety.
And I understand that knowing her story, but I had a different story. And at that point in my life, I was really excited by possibilities. And even if it failed. I was ready to get up and I could do something else. So I took the leap and I didn't have any regrets, and I actually ended up working there for 10 years.
I learned and grew tremendously in that role. I took on a lot of responsibility. I really saw it as like this. Wonderful opportunity to grow and evolve in my career, and it was also a really busy time in my life as well. While I was working there, I got married, my husband and I bought a business, and we started to grow our family, so life was very full.
When our oldest turned one, I made a decision to work part-time, and it might sound like a small decision, but it really hit me over the head pretty hard. I, I agonized for weeks over the decision because. I was trying to reconcile this career woman identity that I'd always imagined. I was with the mom identity that I now had and I didn't know how to compromise.
It felt like working part-time was a good solution, but I was also putting a ceiling. My career that I really saw growing for a very long time. It was all my decision. My husband was incredibly supportive. He said he, he had my back no matter what I decided. So this pressure was all coming from right here, and I guess it until then.
I didn't realize how attached I was to that career identity, and it was suddenly shifting in a massive way, right? When we become parents, yeah. Now we have this new responsibility and it just completely changes the lens of everything. So all of this was happening and we all go through this. I had always had a lot of confidence.
Every woman in my family had always worked. And that was very familiar to me. And I think part of the pressure came because as the first person to go to college, I put additional pressure on myself to see how far I could go, right? So now I was making this consideration, okay, now I'm stepping back a little bit.
Wait a second, what am I doing? Where am I going now? Right? So then. We had two more children, and by the time that I was pregnant with our third and our last kiddo, I decided to leave this forever career and stay home full time. I really believe that the most important job in the world is to raise good people, to raise really good humans.
And while this diversion really still felt a natural to me, my core value has my number one core value has always been family. It felt very important to embrace this full on, and then in my head I thought, okay, well maybe when they go back to school, then we will re-enter and see what that's about. So it was actually four years before I worked outside the home.
Again, I did a lot of volunteering. I worked on different projects. I also, I tell people that I acted as a mental health advocate for my kids. We had some unique challenges. And I was very passionate about making sure that they had the care that they needed. So I spent a lot of time researching and arranging appointments with specialists and so on.
At one point, I also welcomed the opportunity to work very part-time for a business that had been in my husband's family for 30 years. And it wasn't super, super challenging, but I really enjoyed it, and more importantly, it lit a fire in my belly. Again, and so it made me realize that I had more to offer beyond this particular season of nurturing.
And I was ready to go check it out. So I just started casually applying here and there, but nothing was really landing. And at first I tried to convince myself, okay, well that's all right. The timing's not right. I'll get back out there when I'm ready. But my desire to go back just grew and grew. In addition, I didn't want to just work to go work.
The Great Recession had impacted our family, our household, because we were one income household. And the plan had always been okay, if we do need a second income, I was that parachute and I could pull the rip cord. And get back out there into the workforce in finance or wherever I could. But the great recession, the financial crisis, that shifted all of that, and I really was no longer marketable in that area.
And I think that hit me hard because that was the backup plan and it kind of threw me back on my heels. I still continued to apply and look for things, but I had a strong work ethic. I had a great education, I had a great experience, but I was really not getting any traction. On the job front. So I had literally never had any trouble finding a job my entire life, but literally nothing was happening.
And so for the first time in my life it, I was struggling to find value. I took it pretty hard. I took it very personally. I was embarrassed. I was discouraged. I was really mad too. I wanted to help my family, and I knew that I had a lot to offer and I felt ready to go back, but it really just felt like no one could see my value.
I would send in applications and I would never hear back. Or if I did hear back, I would get an interview for a role that was far beneath my experience. And I needed to cover childcare costs, right? In addition, leaving the home. A sacrifice, and I wanted to do work that made an impact and that was going to be worth that sacrifice.
So this overall was just really impacting the way I was showing up for my family. Obviously, my confidence was hit, my self-esteem, my sense of value. I felt really small. That's kind of the best way to describe how I was feeling in general because I didn't want to have conversations about it with other people.
I kept it mostly to myself. When I did get out and I was talking to people, I wasn't representing myself and the best way, because I just, my confidence was gone and, and like I said before, I had never really struggled with that kind of confidence and now I just felt really small and it impacted the way that I showed up for my family.
Most of all, how was it impacting, talk to us about that. Like how was, who were you when you were with them because of what you were going through? You know, I, they were still my priority, obviously, but I wasn't excited mom. I wasn't high energy mom. I wasn't mom that felt good about herself. And when your mindset is so impacted, it really creates ripple effects everywhere you go.
So it, it really wasn't, I just, I, I knew that they deserved a mom that was fully present and not concerned with why can't she find a job? Why is it that I can't provide value to others outside the home? Will I ever be able to provide value to others outside the home? These are all the thoughts that are going on in my mind.
And so I wasn't fully present for my kids. And, and this, this took a long time. This took way too long. Yeah. You can Google strategy on how to land a career all day long. Mm-hmm. But I think what we forget, or what we minimize is that the mindset is critical. And I didn't really realize that at the time.
Like I said, you know, like I had thought my whole life, you just go apply and you interview and you have a job. And I didn't know how to, I could pour into my kids, right? I could help them with their mindset, but we don't do that for ourselves. Not enough at least. So I was spending a lot of time applying to job boards.
Like I said, I was kind of small thinking, small, feeling small, hiding behind the computer. I was not out there networking, which by the way, that's something that I talk a lot with my clients about. The importance of face-to-face networking. Right. You are so good at networking. Uh, yeah. Well, that's a learn skill for sure.
I definitely didn't know what I know now, but the universe actually presented something really incredible for me on my computer because at one point I discovered YouTube videos that literally changed everything for me and you, Amy Bateman and your videos that you were creating. I know that they were four.
People that you were a recruiter at the time, right? And Yeah. Yeah. And you're creating these videos to really support them with their mindset. Because you got it. You understood their strategy, but then it matters how you show up. You've got to tell your story confidently. You have to show up knowing that you're adding tremendous value, right?
You want to be seen and heard and valued. And I was like, she is. Speaking directly to me through YouTube across the pond. Like this woman is talking directly to me, but I was, you really were, and I'm so, so grateful because. Literally, I could feel it energize me and literally it tapped me back into that confidence again.
I mean, I literally, after watching your videos one day, I reached out to a former colleague. You backing up just a minute, your videos, instead of feeling stuck, instead of just seeing challenges and barriers, you help me open my eyes and start seeing possibilities. And that was huge. That is really, really big.
And the mindset work that that you and I do as coaches, when your mindset opens up, then you start to see other things besides problems. Yeah, and, and so instead of just challenges, I started to see possibilities. And one of the possibilities I saw was, you know what? One thing I know I can do, and one thing that I love to do is I love education.
And I started thinking about going back to school. And the biggest obstacle for me at that moment was I needed a letter of recommendation. And that meant I needed to reach out to my network. I don’t know which video you're talking about now. Yes, yes, yes. I know which video you would've watched for that. Yeah.
And after watching that video, I reached out to a former colleague, and mind you, this was, I had thought about this for months. And didn't take any action, and then after watching your video, I reached right out and he immediately said, yes, enthusiastically, of course, I'll write you a letter of recommendation.
He had zero qualms and I was just like, why hadn't I done this before? Of course, he wanted to help me. He was an ally, he was a big supporter, and so he wrote a letter of recommendation and then I felt more empowered to take action. I enrolled in a two year MBA program and I found one that was during the day so I could be in school when my kids were in school.
And then we were home at the same time. And truly it didn't feel long for, or it didn't take long for me to feel more like myself, like my confidence slowly started coming back. Mm-hmm. What was it about that? What if you could pinpoint things that were happening, what was it that was bringing you back to yourself?
Yeah. With learning comes confidence. Getting uncomfortable brings confidence. When we get outside of our comfort zone and we're growing, we gain confidence. I think that having a plan and having clarity was huge. Yeah. Like, okay, I don't know exactly what I'm going to do when I get done with the MBA, but I know that I have a plan for now, and this is going to elevate me more than what I was doing before.
Yeah. Right. Yeah. So confidence and clarity were huge and I started showing up so much better and with so much energy for my family. Mm-hmm. Um, they started noticing right away, really. And I'll never forget my third grader at the time, my youngest, one night at dinner, she just looked at me and said, mom, you are so determined.
Oh, oh my word at first. I know. At first I was like, well, first of all, that's a big word for a third grader. I was so proud of her. And then second, it just really, it just stopped me in my tracks because they were paying attention. I was demonstrating that a mom can be both ambitious and nurturing at the same time.
Yeah, those were not opposite, right? Yeah. They're both parts of who I am. And her bringing that to my attention really just indicated, okay, they're paying attention and if who knows where this is going to go, but at least they know that there are possibilities. Right. At least they know they can see somebody moving forward on their goals.
That must have been a really nice little fuel, a little poke to go, keep going. You, you are on, you're doing it right. Exactly. Yeah. So I graduated two years later and then I found a role leading a team with a culture forward organization that I absolutely loved. It was a really great fit. I worked with incredible people, I learned from incredible leaders and, and I really grew, I would say.
A ton in that timeframe. From the time I started the MBA throughout that five year career, I decided to leave. It was tough to dec to leave, but I decided to leave after about five years for a mix of reasons. One, partly due to a merger the company was going through, partly due to COVID, because that certainly was challenging and partly due to burnout too.
That's interesting. Yeah, but I was ready to move forward with clarity. I definitely was coming from a different place. I always promised myself after going through that almost 10 years ago, that no matter what I did going forward in my career, I would volunteer or I would find a way to help people go through what I went through.
Whether it's a massive pivot in their career or they're relaunching their career, it shouldn't have to take years. Yeah. To rediscover what you want to do or make that transition in your life. Yeah. And so it's my mission to accelerate that process. What took me years to accomplish. I want to help people reduce that time and get back to work and not go through that dark period of, and embarrassment and low confidence and low self-esteem.
Yeah. How often the place where we can add the most value in the world is often the place where we've experienced the most pain, where we've experienced the most. Challenges. So it is just perfect that that's what you are doing now is helping other people through the places where you experienced that.
What's the most important thing that you would say to somebody now who's crafting their career comeback, and what's the most important thing that they should be doing? I tell my clients, the most important thing that I tell my clients is this. You have to know how to tell your story. And you have to own it.
And that's really everything. Your mindset sets the tone for your career comeback period. So it's a very first thing that we work on. It's not the strategy, but it's the mindset. So to break it down, recognize that your career pause is in no way a weakness. It's, it doesn't matter how long it is, it's a period of growth.
And it's a period of reflection and it's a period of learning new skills. You're really adding a lot of depth and new perspective to your professional story, truly. And once you see it that way, then you stop apologizing when you're telling your story and you can show up confidently, say, this is who I am.
And you should never feel like you have to explain or justify a career pause, right? We can't control what other people think. As much as we want to, and we're programmed to control, right? But we really can't control what other people think. But you can control the energy that you show up with. And when we work on showing up with this authentic and undeniable confidence it, and, and allow it to come straight from ourselves, then people are attracted to that.
That kind of energy is really magnetic. So the other thing that I say too. We can get so caught up with, okay, if I tell my story to this person, what might they think of me? First of all, like I said, we can't control what they think, but you can convey your story without expecting a specific outcome. Talk about that.
Yeah, so forget about them and their opinion. Story meaning don't have a conversation just trying to convince someone or justify when you share your story without trying to prove your worth. And that could be networking. That could be interviewing. You are, you're not asking for validation. You're demonstrating clarity and self-trust, and you get to be yourself no matter if the other, what the other person says or what the other person does, you just show up with your ultimate power.
And if they get it, they get it. And if they don't, then they're not your people. And a lot of people listening to this will hear people often saying, you've got to own your story, but what does that actually mean? Own it. Like say it like, how do I own it? And that's exactly it. What you've just said, and you've just said that so beautifully.
Owning your story is, I'm going to tell you this information, but not to convince you of anything, just. For clarity purposes. It doesn't matter how you feel about what I'm about to say. I love that you've just said that. That's owning your story. Absolutely. There's so much power in that, and by the way, this is true for anybody looking for a job, not just those who are making a career comeback, but we all need to be able to tell our story with that absolute conviction and zero regard for an expected outcome.
That person may or may not like that story. That's okay. It doesn't change my value. I may not get the job. If I tell my story. That's okay. It doesn't mean you don't have value. And obviously that takes some practice. I think that's the most important thing. So what advice would you give to those who are still in that career?
Pause. So in terms of the mindset work? Yeah. I would say, first of all, when you're still in that pause, continue growing your network. And ideally that's face-to-face. That doesn't necessarily mean just on LinkedIn or social media. We've heard the saying, your network is your net worth. So we should always be growing our network.
Yeah. Whether we're gainfully employed right now, or we're looking for a job, or you're on the career pause. We should always be growing our network, even if, let's say you've taken some time for some caregiving and your network is shifting. So now you find yourselves talking more with other parents or other caregivers and fewer professionals, that's okay.
Keep expanding and growing your network and keep meeting new people and focus on high quality connections. I. It's not really about asking for a job. Networking is more about just building high quality connections and that's when doors start to open. When the time comes and when you're ready people will remember you and that helps you stand out.
Yeah. And it's really easy when your caregiving to disappear from the professional world. Mm-hmm. So you might delete LinkedIn from your phone. You might not be as visible, like you have your keep in touch days or whatever. That's assuming that you're still in employment while you're on caregiving. A lot of people aren't at all.
Yeah. And it's, it's just easy to be like, the only people I'm going to see are the other parents mm-hmm. That are on the WhatsApp group or mm-hmm. The school gates or whatever, and I get that. But there's value there. Absolutely. There's friendships there. There's two women at the moment who are on my female further coaching program, and they both know each other, and one recommended the other one because both their 3-year-old sons go to nursery together.
Mm. And we've just done values work. And it turns out that when we've been doing their value compass that there's almost the same value compass. It's like you've just met somebody, both brilliant women leaders, both in a very similar stage in their life, same, very similar values, compass, and they've met each other.
And have become huge supporters of each other as well as friends. Um, awesome. At the, at, at through the school, WhatsApp group. And I love, and I'm watching them now supporting each other. They're on the program because of each other. And I know that's not always the case, but it's just an example. But yeah, value is everywhere and making sure that.
If you can keep that visibility, keep that, and I love what you said about that face-to-face thing. Mm-hmm. That's really, really important. Yeah. I really feel like we've lost a lot of that after COVID. Yeah. And it's not always possible. And it's difficult, especially, you know, you're working long hours, you might not have, I don't have any parents who's going to sit with my 3-year-old if I was going to go out, so.
Knowing that what your version of that might look very different to somebody else's version of that. But if you could have some intentionality around that, that would, that would be great. Actually. I would love for people to hear how you and I actually got in touch because I've used this example a few different times where I think it was eight to 10 years ago.
When I was watching your videos, and they made such a massive impact, not just on me, but my family, right? Because this whole, this just allowed me to take this whole new journey, and I remembered your words throughout the MBA program. I remembered your words. Leading my team. They made such a massive impact.
And it was just about, I don't know, a year and a half ago or so, maybe two years ago, I was looking for you. I thought whatever happened to Aimee Bateman and, and I, I found. Oh God. So you had this post on LinkedIn and you were announcing your female further program, and I was so excited because I just was hoping that when I did find you, you were still doing the amazing work that you've been doing.
And I saw this post and I thought, this woman has no idea how she impacted my life. And even though you didn't know who I was, I considered you part of my network. And so I thought, okay, if I died tomorrow, I need to tell Aimee Bateman just how much she impacted me. So on your Post I, you announced this program and I just said, Hey Aimee, I'm super excited.
I just need to let you know really quick. You impacted my life in a massive way through your work. And I think that was it. I think it was just short. Yeah. Yeah. And it was just right on your public wall. And, and then I don't remember if it was you that dm’d me or I DMed you right after that. Yeah. I You like, hi, thank you so much.
And I was like, oh my goodness. I didn't expect a response. Again, going back to that networking, right? I just thought, this is what I need to do for me. Whether I hear from Aimee or not, I need to let her know I didn't expect a response. I got a response and then I got a, Hey, would you like to meet for a virtual coffee?
And, and the rest is history. I think we've met several times since then. Yeah. Yeah. And you, you say that I've helped you, but you've helped me through some stuff. When I was pivoting away to specializing in professional women and working with women leaders, that was a massive pivot for me. I was moving away from so much of my corporate work.
Mm-hmm. But I'd been on my own motherhood journey, my own career break, and it was just work. I, I felt like I was born to do this. You really helped me get clarity on that. So yeah. So yeah, you helped me back. Well, it was, it was kind of a full circle moment. Yeah. I mean, again, I will just state that I didn't expect anything in return, but the fact that I consider you not just in my network, but an incredible colleague and a friend, and I'm just so grateful that you personally gave me the courage and the confidence.
To network in that way. Mm-hmm. And, and it opens doors and possibilities when people reach out. Yeah. Yeah. If we get stuck in our head and we overthink it and say, oh, I can't reach out to this person for whatever reason, you never know what could be possible. And another thing that I say is keep growing and trying new things in your career.
Pause. So stay up on current events, keep growing and try taking classes. Or a new hobby or volunteering. Make sure your world, just like your network is expanding and you think about the work environment and businesses evolving and dynamic, right? You want to be the same so that when you do get back to work, you're used to that pace of growth and you're getting outta your comfort zone.
Um, and then lastly, I would say when you're ready, and I, I tell this to my career seekers right now, date everyone. And what I mean by that is just allow yourself to be open and flexible to what it looks like in your next chapter. It might look totally different than your last chapter. And so if an opportunity comes up and somebody says, do you, would you like to apply for this job or interview for this job?
And you think, okay, well that's not really in my wheelhouse, or whatever your first thoughts might be, have the conversation anyway. You never know where that might go, and at the very least, that person gets an opportunity to learn more about you. Sometimes it works out that when people are in a job interview for, let's say, role A, in that job interview, the interviewer actually recognizes, you know what?
This person has a skill set that's better for role B. Many times, yeah, my, that used to happen more than you would think. Absolutely. And worst case scenario, you've made an additional connection in your network and so date everyone. Just allow yourself to be open and flexible in what that next journey may look like.
And we talk about how 70 to 80% of jobs come through your market, your hidden market, sorry, which is your network. And so the more that you expand your network, the more doors open for you. Mm. You talked about burnout. I see that happening with lots of people when they return to work. It's like, I've got to make up for lost time.
I've got to prove myself. Yeah. Almost like you feel like you're on the back burner and it's, oh, it like I've seen it happen. And what advice would you have for anyone that's listening to that? To avoid burnouts? To make sure that they're aligning their values, their priorities. Making sure that their boundaries are in place while they're still pursuing.
Growth. Right, and progress. Well, one of the first things I did when I went back to and started the MBA program is I sat down with my family and I painted the picture for them. So my kids were in third, fifth, and seventh grade, and I just wanted to make sure we were all on the same page and bought in to the plan.
I told them mom was really excited to go back to work that before my role as mom, I had a career and I loved both my roles. And I explained to them the benefits of having both parents work, and that meant that both parents got to use their talents. We got to use our education as well as being parents.
We would always be parents. Right. I also told them that I get, I, I tried to help them feel confident that they were ready for this too. Wow, that they could do a lot of things on their own. And my kids are very independent minded, so this really excited them. They got excited about being able to help and to do things on their own.
So you're selling the benefit of this to them? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Exactly. It's so important to get the whole team bought in and we talked about how things would look different. So for example, now they were in charge of making their own lunches. Which truly made me cringe a little bit because I had to give over that control and, and they would, I would buy healthy food, but no matter what, they would somehow find junk to put in their lunches.
I had to learn to let that go. Everybody would have to chip in to making dinner. So I got one of those dinner services where food comes in a box to our doorstep and it comes with instructions, and the oldest could do the chopping and they could figure it out from the instructions. Another example is I, I said, okay, we're going to do laundry just one day a week.
That's going to be on Sundays. So just like before you have to sort your own laundry. We're going to do it start to finish, and you're going to finish it all on Sundays. And if you choose not to, that's fine too. You're a hundred percent responsible for it throughout the week, and we just don't want to see it. We don't want it strewn throughout the house.
We need to have it started and completed on Sunday. And I never was that rigid or organized in my household until we needed to be. And they actually really liked it. But it's really important to get that buy-in and help empower them and it sets you up to be more successful because a lot of women feel, I hear them use the word guilt.
They feel guilty asking for help, but really this is about leadership and it's about leading your team, leading your family, and empowering everybody to really chip in on the bigger picture and it sets everybody up to be more successful.
Oh, Jacqui, that is so helpful. If anybody wants to find out a little bit more about you, connect with you, how can they do that? My website, which is jacquiporter.com, and I have my services there. A little bit about me, I have a couple different programs. One is specific for people returning to their career, the career comeback program, and I offer a VIP day where we dive in deep and basically what took me years to figure out, we compact it in one day.
Wow and everything from the mindset to the strategy and developing that story so that you walk away feeling much more capable and empowered. I also do what I call a power hour session, and this is really helpful for clients who just need a mindset tuneup. Maybe they're just lacking confidence or clarity.
Well, I will put the link to your website in the show notes, and also if you're listening to this and there was anything there that you found helpful or you saw yourself in Jackie's story, then I will also put her LinkedIn link there so you can drop her a little note and say, Hey, well thank you Jackie so much for being here.
That was. A topic that I'm so glad that we discussed, and I'm so glad that it was you that discussed it with me. Have a lovely week, my friends, and take care. Thank you, Aimee.
Hi. Do you want to spend some real time with me so that we can reconnect to who you are, what lights you up, and map out your next chapter, one that truly fulfils you? Well, each month I hold a live exclusive insider session where we work together to do exactly that, and these sessions are totally free for my brilliant podcast listeners, and that includes you.
Now I keep these sessions really small and intimate, so spaces are limited, but you can grab your spot. The link is in the show notes, or just drop me a note and we can get cracking. I cannot wait to see you.
